New Edgley And Older Marcus

[bill_mchale]

Ok, My new Edgley concertina showed up at about 8:15 PM (more than 3 hours after UPS said they would make delivery.. and to think I left work early so I wouldn't miss it, sigh). Anyway, I thought it might be somewhat instructive to compare this instrument with the Marcus that I have had since last October (obtained frm a fellow C-netter).

 

Before I go on with the actual comarison, I would like to note that both of these are great instruments easily worlds better than the Stagi I have; also I want to stress that i like both instruments immensly. Anything that I write should be taken purely in light of the comparison based on my own personal preference and not necessarily seen as a criticism of either of these fine instruments.

 

Ok, a little bit more about both instruments.

 

The Marcus is their basic standard model; wooden ends and good but not premium reeds. I aquired it used from a fellow c-netter and I am at least the third owner. The Marcus is set up with Wheatstone tuning.

 

The Edgley is close to Edgley's top of the line, it has metal ends, premium reeds and it has a black finish; in many respects it looks like a classic concertina. The Edgley is set up with Jefferies Tuning.

 

Buttons and button action:

 

The Marcus has thin metal buttons that are set relatively high and feel like they barely depress when you press them. When you play, it almost feels like you press against the buttons. In any case the relatively stiff set up combined with the thin metal buttons means that your fingers definitely feel it when you play. My index fingers in particular have toughened up playing this little tina. One note, one or two buttons on the Marcus do stick occasionally; it depends on the conditions (seems to happen more often when it is very dry). Its not a major problem and it could probably be fixed by someone who knows more about instrument repair than I do.

 

The Edgley buttons are broader and made of some type of plastic (Derilin?). In any case they seem to have more travel than the Marcus but move so quickly that you barely feel the buttons until you reach the bottem of their travel. In any case, despite the apparent greater travel of the buttons, the action is very quick. Certainly as fast as I can play and I am sure a good deal faster still.

 

Bellows:

The Marcus even though its several years old (at least) and has been played pretty steadily by at least me retains stiff bellows; indeed they seem to be about as stiff as the Edgley's. In any case, the Marcus is very air-tight and air-efficient; indeed it seems even more air-tight than the new Edgley. The other thing is that bellows are larger; approximately 3.5" on a side as opposed to 3.25" on a side for the Edgley's.

In any case the whole combination means that the Marcus seems stiffer when playing it than the brand new Edgley.

 

Well I have covered the Egley's bellows already in comparing them to the Marcus, but I just want to highlight that the Edgley's looseness is a good thing; even though one generally moves the bellows more with the Edley, it requires less conscious effort. They are also made with a textured leather that looks nicer than the Marcus's bellows.

 

Tone:

Tone is obviously subjective and I want to stress that both of these instruments definitely sound like concertinas and sound very good. At the moment I would say that the Marcus sounds a bit more mellow and the Edgley a tiny bit harsher but with more of a honk to it. One has to remember though that reeds do mellow with with time and I expect that by the time the Edgley gets some time on it it will have mellowed out quite nicely.

 

Well in any case I am thrilled with the New Edgley and I think I will be happy with it for some time. At some point I will have to post some sound samples of both instruments.

 

--

Bill

[Henk van Aalten]

Bill

 

That's an interesting comparison and it shows that your statement below is very true.

Anything that I write should be taken purely in light of the comparison based on my own personal preference and not necessarily seen as a criticism of either of these fine instruments.

Some time ago, I made a similar comparison between a Marcus Deluxe (topmodel) and a Geuns Wakker and come to similar characteristics for the Marcus as far as button resistance, button "travel" and bellows concerns. However my personal appreciation is different from yours: with the Marcus I feel that I have "something" between my hands.

I realize however that in time (when my playing improves) I might like the Geuns more than the Marcus.

 

I will review my comparison and maybe I'll post it.

Edited June 4, 2005 by Henk van Aalten

[bill_mchale]

Bill

 

That's an interesting comparison and it shows that your statement below is very true.

Anything that I write should be taken purely in light of the comparison based on my own personal preference and not necessarily seen as a criticism of either of these fine instruments.

Some time ago, I made a similar comparison between a Marcus Deluxe (topmodel) and a Geuns Wakker and come to similar characteristics for the Marcus as far as button resistance, button "travel" and bellows concerns. However my personal appreciation is different from yours: with the Marcus I feel that I have "something" between my hands.

I realize however that in time (when my playing improves) I might like the Geuns more than the Marcus.

 

I will review my comparison and maybe I'll post it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well everyone has their own personal preference.. and indeed in some regards I do like the fact that the Marcus is very air tight. On the other hand the more I play the Edgley the more I am becoming addicted to its responsiveness. Ornaments can be done so fast on it... there is a EF#G triplett that I do in some tunes (That I got from box playing not sure if strictly speaking its a normal concertina ornament) that just is so fast on the Edgley I don't have to think about it. In contrast on the Marcus I can do it.. but I do have to be more deliberate in how I do it if I want it to actually happen.

 

--

Bill

[Alan Miller]

I also have an Edgley that I find extremely fast and fun to play. I offer one thought re the tightness of the bellows. When my Edgley arrived I found that I would often run out of air a bit quickly, then I felt the draft where the bellows meet the wood. I tightened the screws (carefully) and it made a world of difference. Alan Miller

[bill_mchale]

I also have an Edgley that I find extremely fast and fun to play.  I offer one thought re the tightness of the bellows.  When my Edgley arrived I found that I would often run out of air a bit quickly, then I felt the draft where the bellows meet the wood.  I tightened the screws (carefully) and it made a world of difference.  Alan Miller

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Please don't misunderstand me; I in no way meant to imply that the Edgley was not air-tight. I have played several different concertinas and Accordions and in the Edgley compares favorably to all of them in terms of air-tightness. No instrument is going to be completely air-tight. Its just the Marcus seems even tighter in that regard, indeed perhaps just a little too tight.

 

--

Bill

[ceemonster]

bill, thanks so much for "daring" to post a comparison of these instruments that is not judgmental as to quality yet offers point-by-point specifics as to one user's experience of different features. these impressions/opinions are so useful. i, too have a marcus as well as a button box ceili (along with a concertina-reeded instrument). my experience as to my marcus is similar to yours in some respects---i find the marcus box itself (a deluxe) to be simply lovely in terms of craftsmanship and construction quality. i'm very impressed with the bellows. i do find the marcus button action to be significantly slower than that on the morse, which is as fast as any out there. but the morse bellows seem spongy & stiff as compared with those on the marcus. as to the voice of each instrument, both are really neat, though different. the marcus is more "pretty." it is more like small bells. the ceili voice has more of that quack-like-a-duck sound that i personally adore in a concertina. it is more like a little animal. both voices are really nice. my experience with these boxes has been the same as my impressions of the other high-quality accordion-reeded brands---the "points scored" seem to fall in different columns for each, yet when the totals are columned up, they seem to be roughly the same for each. i like the bellows & construction on the marcus. i like the button action & voice personality on the morse.

[Stephen Chambers]

When my Edgley arrived I found that I would often run out of air a bit quickly, then I felt the draft where the bellows meet the wood.  I tightened the screws (carefully) and it made a world of difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan,

 

That was quite likely the result of a climatic change, something that commonly affects our instruments.

 

I was talking to Douglas Rogers the other day, and he was telling me how his 1860ish Wheatstone lost a lot of compression, and a couple of buttons started to stick, when he flew from London to New York for some of his Regondi recordings.

[Hilary]

I have a Marcus D/G Deluxe which has loosened in the bellows, considerably since I got it new 2 years ago. However, I've got to take it back for repairs as it is leaking round one of the right-hand buttons. This only occured since last weekend, which is a shame as I was only half an hour from their workshop then and could have taken it straight in!

[Alan Miller]

Stephen: Thanks for the tip. I am flying to Ireland at the end of next week, and will bring a small phillips screwdriver just in case. In fact, I received the Edgley just a day or two before I went to Ireland last year so the flight may have led to the looseness of the bellows.

 

I will be in Kinvara. Do you ever get up there from Kilrush? My recollection is that there is conertina music at Winkles one night a week, and there are sessions at one of the local Kinvara pubs virtually every night. I still am not brave enough to join in (after only playing 1/1/2 years) but the atmosphere makes me practice even more. Alan

Edited June 7, 2005 by Alan Miller

[bill_mchale]

bill, thanks so much for "daring" to post a comparison of these instruments that is not judgmental as to quality yet offers point-by-point specifics as to one user's experience of different features. these impressions/opinions are so useful. i, too have a marcus as well as a button box ceili (along with a concertina-reeded instrument). my experience as to my marcus is similar to yours in some respects---i find the marcus box itself (a deluxe) to be simply lovely in terms of craftsmanship and construction quality. i'm very impressed with the bellows. i do find the marcus button action to be significantly slower than that on the morse, which is as fast as any out there. but the morse bellows seem spongy & stiff as compared with those on the marcus. as to the voice of each instrument, both are really neat, though different. the marcus is more "pretty." it is more like small bells. the ceili voice has more of that quack-like-a-duck sound that i personally adore in a concertina. it is more like a little animal. both voices are really nice. my experience with these boxes has been the same as my impressions of the other high-quality accordion-reeded brands---the "points scored" seem to fall in different columns for each, yet when the totals are columned up, they seem to be roughly the same for each. i like the bellows & construction on the marcus. i like the button action & voice personality on the morse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are welcome. I didn't see the post as "Daring", I just thought that a comparison might be useful if anyone was in the situation where they had to choose between the two instruments (I would personally shudder at the prospect of having to choose but I am too much of a collector for my own good). In general I think it would be useful if more people who have multiple concertinas wrote such comparisons. In general while any of these concertinas can be used to play any style of music, I think different instruments might be better for particular types of music. The speed of my Edgley means it is easier to play Irish music on it than the Marcus. In contrast the greater air capacity of the Marcus might make it more suitable for music with lots of chords.

 

Sigh, so little money and time; if I could I would have one of all the Italian style reeded concertina instruments (well and one of each of the English style reeded instruments) and then I could come up with a diffinitive comparison of all the mid-range instruments.

 

--

Bill

Edited June 6, 2005 by bill_mchale

[Animaterra]

Bill, congratulations on your new Edgely! It sounds like a wonderful instrument. You've made an interesting and informative comparison and it sounds like you've increased your versatility (to steal a term from Alan Day!). Enjoy your new friend!

[Stephen Chambers]

Stephen:  Thanks for the tip.  I am flying to Ireland at the end of next week, and will bring a small phillips screwdriver just in case.  In fact, I received the Edgley just a day or two before I went to Ireland last year so the flight may have led to the looseness of the bellows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan,

 

If you bring your concertina here you can expect the opposite reaction, as you will be travelling from a relatively dry climate to a very damp one, so the wood will swell up, making everything tighter. It may well be that the looseness of the bellows you experienced was a result of the wood shrinking on your return from Ireland.

 

 

I will be in Kinvara.  Do you ever get up there from Kilrush?

I drove through there on Friday, taking "the scenic route" up to Galway, but it's quite a journey, especially in bad weather. Even taking the main roads, via Ennis and Gort, takes at least 1 1/2 hours, so I wouldn't go there too often when there is music much closer to home.

 

 

My recollection is that there is conertina music at Winkles one night a week, and there are sessions at one of the local Kinvara pubs virtually every night.

I don't know about the sessions in Winkles, but a friend of mine plays melodeon/Cajun accordion in one of the pubs on a Sunday night. He's also starting to play Bandonion, and might have it with him.

[Frank Edgley]

Just a short technical explanation regarding your observations, Bill:

 

"The Marcus has thin metal buttons that are set relatively high and feel like they barely depress when you press them. When you play, it almost feels like you press against the buttons."

 

"The Edgley buttons are broader and made of some type of plastic (Derilin?). In any case they seem to have more travel than the Marcus but move so quickly that you barely feel the buttons until you reach the bottem of their travel."

 

"In any case, the Marcus is very air-tight and air-efficient; indeed it seems even more air-tight than the new Edgley. The other thing is that bellows are larger; approximately 3.5" on a side as opposed to 3.25" on a side for the Edgley's."

 

As with most things in life, there are compromises. Bellows diameter, for example. A larger diameter bellows holds more air, thus is slower to go down. However, as a gas, air compresses and the greater the volume of air in a bellows, the slower it will reach the same operating pressure it had in the opposite direction (response). Button travel also affects several things. If two instruments have the same mechanism ration of 40:60 (i.e. 40% of the length of the arm between the button & the fulcrum and 60% between the fulcrum and the pad), the travel of the button will affect the amount the pad will lift off the vent hole. Too much travel will allow the pad to lift very high, allowing more air and sound to be produced. The sound will come out very quickly, but the amount of button travel is greater. Too little will result in the button reaching bottom quicker, but less sound and air will be able to be produced. This will make the instrument seem tighter. However, it will slow down the response of the reeds as the reeds will not be able to breathe efficiently. There will also be fewer harmonics perceived. In my opinion it is not the way to go as you want the instrument to be fast & responsive. However, it is a delicate balancing act - Too much travel - too loud & course, but fast; too little travel - smoother tone, but sluggish response. This, if all other things are equal. The tone of your instrument will definitely mellow over the next months, depending how and low long you play it, and the quickness will definitely not slow down.

Edited June 15, 2005 by Frank Edgley

[bill_mchale]

Just a short technical explanation regarding your observations, Bill:

 

As with most things in life, there are compromises. Bellows diameter, for example. A larger diameter bellows holds more air, thus is slower to go down. However, as a gas, air compresses and the greater the volume of air in a bellows, the slower it will reach the same operating pressure it had in the opposite direction (response). Button travel also affects several things. If two instruments have the same mechanism ration of 40:60 (i.e. 40% of the length of the arm between the button & the fulcrum and 60% between the fulcrum and the pad), the travel of the button will affect the amount the pad will lift off the vent hole. Too much travel will allow the pad to lift very high, allowing more air and sound to be produced. The sound will come out very quickly, but the amount of button travel is greater. Too little will result in the button reaching bottom quicker, but less sound and air will be able to be produced. This will make the instrument seem tighter. However, it will slow down the response of the reeds as the reeds will not be able to breathe efficiently. There will also be fewer harmonics perceived. In my opinion it is not the way to go as you want the instrument to be fast & responsive. However, it is a delicate balancing act - Too much travel - too loud & course, but fast; too little travel - smoother tone, but sluggish response. This, if all other things are equal. The tone of your instrument will definitely mellow over the next months, depending how and low long you play it, and the quickness will definitely not slow down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Frank,

Thanks for the explinations. After having the instrument for a week or so I can say that I am thrilled beyond words with it. It is so easy to play and so responsive that I must admit I don't often pick up the Marcus anymore. To put it in perspective; if the Marcus is sitting next to me and the the Edgley is across the room and I feel like playing the concertina I will get up and walk across the room to get the Edgley. When a lazy guy like me is willing to do that you know he really is enamoured with the Edgley. . Granted part of it is probably the New Toy effect but the Edgley really is just excellent.

 

--

Bill