Jeffries Bros 44 button Duet

[David Hornett]

Hi all,

 

I am in the process of completely restoring a Jeffries Bros Duet and have got to the tuning stage. (So far completed: New 7 fold kangaroo skinned bellows, in the heavy Jeffries style, / papers / tooling / hand-straps / pallets / valves / reglued frame / bushings -- all animal glued.)

 

There are a few peculiarities about this instrument: although it has the raised duet ends, it seems to have started life as a 37 button anglo. I believe this because the added notes button guides have been soldered on the inside of the instrument, both sides, and don't pass through wooden guides, and the added buttons very neatly and precisely passed through the fretwork. The air-button has changed sides to become C# on the left hand (Being a duet there is no need of an air-button). When the instrument is opened one can see where the peg and pin were on the right side for the airbutton. New reed mounts have been added and the old reed and air holes closed up with dowel. Some reeds have been remounted, former large and small reed slots packed out. And finally the pegs mounting board has on both sides been scooped our to allow for the pallets of the extra keys to cover the added reeds. The whole thing has been done most professionally, and I doubt very much if a backyard handyman could have done this, I certainly would never have attempted it.

 

The instrument is in 'G' (an octave below the G on a standard C/G) A456, and pretty much in tune except for a few random stray notes.

 

Now my question for you to ponder: In tuning do I file and take it up about 40 cents to 'D', or silver solder weight the notes and take them down about 60 cents to A440 'G', or leave it at 'G' A456; meaning barely a soul except for the violins can play with it?

 

OR Do I restore it entirely to a 38 button anglo?

 

OR Do I tune it entirely to goodness know what, keeping its 44 keys: this depends on changing at least half the reeds by filing and weighing, because being a duet they are the same note push and pull?

 

I hesitate to silver solder notes, because although most accept it nicely, in does alter the tone at some frequencies and , for the few notes affected turns them from mellow to more of an ear cutting scream: been there done that!

 

As it is, it is beautifully mellow instrument, with a growl, volume and response that would knock most concertinas out of the room.

 

Suggestions? When tuned I will sell it as I don't play duets, so just maybe I should anglofie it???

 

So, what do you think?

 

David

[Geoff Wooff]

I do not quite understand what you are saying regarding the tuning David:

 

You say it is in G.... I imagine you mean this is the 'home key'.

 

You say the A is 456hz.

Taking the reeds up 40 cents would give a home key of G# I would think ? Not D....

 

Taking the reeds down 60 cents would be the normal option, or my choice.

 

Reeds were never weighted by Silver Soldering.... it is too hot and will destroy the 'temper' of the steel. You could weight with Soft Solder (Lead Solder or what passes for it today).

 

Reverting it to an Anglo, if you have sufficient original reeds would be your best option for gaining money out of your eventual sale, that is if you are convinced that it was originally an anglo.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Geoff Wooff

[Theo]

In deciding how to tune it you should think about the eventual use. Do you plan to play it or do you plan to sell it? Keep it at it's present tuning until you have a good reason to change it. Good reasons for changing could include because you, or a buyer want to play with other instruments which are at A=440Hz. If you plan to sell then advertise it as original pitch, and include an option to re-pitch it if the buyer requires. There are people who prefer instruments in their original tuning.

[spindizzy]

Are duets in a key ... I thought, like English Cs they were fully chromatic.?

[Marien]

Are duets in a key ... I thought, like English Cs they were fully chromatic.?

 

Spindizzy,

 

Jeffries Duets are fully chromatic, but there are some favorite scales. It's easy to play in C (like the white keys on the english) or Am. Some scales are difficult to play. The jeffries duet has 4 rows on both sides. The center (middle 2 rows) have all the keys of the C-scale. The outer row is basically accidentals (like on an anglo). The inner rows contain octave keys and some accidentals as well.

 

All>

To return to the topic... As I play with other people I am not interested in "old pitch" and other tuning deviants... It should be concert pitch to many players I guess....

 

Marien

[Jim Besser]

 

OR Do I restore it entirely to a 38 button anglo?

 

 

If you're planning on selling it, remember that there's a very limited market for Jeffries duets, while the Anglos are in high demand and fetch much higher prices.

[spindizzy]

Are duets in a key ... I thought, like English Cs they were fully chromatic.?

 

Spindizzy,

 

Jeffries Duets are fully chromatic, but there are some favorite scales. It's easy to play in C (like the white keys on the english) or Am. Some scales are difficult to play. The jeffries duet has 4 rows on both sides. The center (middle 2 rows) have all the keys of the C-scale. The outer row is basically accidentals (like on an anglo). The inner rows contain octave keys and some accidentals as well.

 

All>

To return to the topic... As I play with other people I am not interested in "old pitch" and other tuning deviants... It should be concert pitch to many players I guess....

 

Marien

 

Thanks fr the explanantion, Marien, The only Duet that I've tried was a Triumph/Crane.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Are duets in a key ... I thought, like English Cs they were fully chromatic.?

 

Spindizzy,

 

Jeffries Duets are fully chromatic, but there are some favorite scales. It's easy to play in C (like the white keys on the english) or Am. Some scales are difficult to play. The jeffries duet has 4 rows on both sides. The center (middle 2 rows) have all the keys of the C-scale. The outer row is basically accidentals (like on an anglo). The inner rows contain octave keys and some accidentals as well.

 

All>

To return to the topic... As I play with other people I am not interested in "old pitch" and other tuning deviants... It should be concert pitch to many players I guess....

 

Marien

 

With Jeffries duets we often refer to their key as "C core" or "Bb core". As Marien mentioned they are "in theory" chromatic instruments but some keys are "friendlier" than others. The relative notes of the layout are basically the same, but just like an anglo, the beginning note of the scale can be different.(up and down the row for anglo; starting point of the zig zag Jeffries scale)

 

I've seen C, Bb, A and Ab core Jeffries duets. Big Nick had one of his Jeffries duets tuned up to a D core. (Yes, Jim Lucas, I suppose Big Nick favored a Jeffries with "fancy D core" )

 

Here is a link to a typical 44b C core Jeffries layout:

 

http://www.concertina.com/fingering/images/jeffries-W1308H389.gif

 

As Theo pointed out it is can be a good idea for a prospective buyer to decide how to ultimately tune an instrument. One huge factor in deciding to retune is the present state of the reeds. If they have not undergone a major retuning in the past then dropping them 40 cents without compromising tone or response is a definite possibility. If they've been retuned in the past there may not be enough "meat" on the reeds to suffer another major retuning. Adding solder may or may not be a viable route but it is always a compromise. A number of Jeffries and Jeffries duet fans might gladly opt for 40 cent high pitch that they could play solo rather than a poor sounding, compromised instrument in standard pitch.

 

Greg

Edited October 10, 2012 by Greg Jowaisas

[Dirge]

With Jeffries duets we often refer to their key as "C core" or "Bb core". As Marien mentioned they are "in theory" chromatic instruments but some keys are "friendlier" than others. The relative notes of the layout are basically the same, but just like an anglo, the beginning note of the scale can be different.(up and down the row for anglo; starting point of the zig zag Jeffries scale)

 

I've seen C, Bb, A and Ab core Jeffries duets. Big Nick had one of his Jeffries duets tuned up to a D core.

Greg

 

This is intriguing; surely all properly chromatic keyboard instruments have both more and less comfortable keys to play in and their owners just accept it? Beginners not wanting to play the black notes on the piano springs to mind for instance. Making various layouts to compensate is unusual. Is this something to do with the business of jaffries duets being aimed at 'improving' Anglo players?

 

David H; if you can make it back into an Anglo it's probably worth it...not only will it double the value but it will sell a lot faster. (Duet players do like an air button by the way.)

[Greg Jowaisas]

With Jeffries duets we often refer to their key as "C core" or "Bb core". As Marien mentioned they are "in theory" chromatic instruments but some keys are "friendlier" than others. The relative notes of the layout are basically the same, but just like an anglo, the beginning note of the scale can be different.(up and down the row for anglo; starting point of the zig zag Jeffries scale)

 

I've seen C, Bb, A and Ab core Jeffries duets. Big Nick had one of his Jeffries duets tuned up to a D core.

Greg

 

This is intriguing; surely all properly chromatic keyboard instruments have both more and less comfortable keys to play in and their owners just accept it? Beginners not wanting to play the black notes on the piano springs to mind for instance. Making various layouts to compensate is unusual. Is this something to do with the business of jaffries duets being aimed at 'improving' Anglo players?

 

David H; if you can make it back into an Anglo it's probably worth it...not only will it double the value but it will sell a lot faster. (Duet players do like an air button by the way.)

 

Dirge,

I think one of the attractions of the Jeffties duet for anglo players is how the chords (particularly for the core key) lie out up and down the rows. I think in this regard it "strikes a chord" of playing and feeling like an anglo.

 

Perhaps some Jeffries duet players like Gary Coover and Gavin Atkin can lend us their insights and expound on the possibilitirs of playing away from the core key.

 

Greg

[Dirge]

 

 

Dirge,

I think one of the attractions of the Jeffties duet for anglo players is how the chords (particularly for the core key) lie out up and down the rows. I think in this regard it "strikes a chord" of playing and feeling like an anglo.

 

Perhaps some Jeffries duet players like Gary Coover and Gavin Atkin can lend us their insights and expound on the possibilitirs of playing away from the core key.

 

Greg

 

That would be interesting, if anyone has the time.

[David Hornett]

Thank you all for the advice, especially the correction that it would be C#, not D, if tuned up rather than down: that certainly says something about my thought processes at the time.

 

I have appended the tuning chart for reference, should anyone else have one of these to figure out (maybe someone knows how to place it with the other tuning charts on Concertina.net. Now, I am not certain, but I think this layout suggests a 'G' instrument. (When playing it, it falls beautifully, almost intuitively into the minor.

 

It certainly has been modified, very professionally, but nevertheless modified from a 37 button instrument, all the original holes, including the breather holes, have been filled, ie air release vent, reed shoes modified, face plate guides added , right down to the air release button, which has been swapped to the left, having the air breather pallet kept so as to cover the two reed shoe holes. These shoes had to be displaced to elsewhere in order to hold the low C#. I am left wondering if it is not a early, Jeffries Bros experimental duet I have, prior to their going into production.

 

I may play it for a while to see if I can get the hang of the thing before making up my mind. Possibly the quickest way to change it would be to make two new reed plates, be a dashed sight easier than digging out the filling, and shimming down shoe slots. (Anyone out there got a left and right Jeffries reed plate -- without the reeds -- they would like to sell me?)

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Chris Ghent]

Any chance of a photo or two of the modifications?

[JimLucas]

With Jeffries duets we often refer to their key as "C core" or "Bb core". As Marien mentioned they are "in theory" chromatic instruments but some keys are "friendlier" than others. The relative notes of the layout are basically the same, but just like an anglo, the beginning note of the scale can be different.(up and down the row for anglo; starting point of the zig zag Jeffries scale)

 

I've seen C, Bb, A and Ab core Jeffries duets. Big Nick had one of his Jeffries duets tuned up to a D core.

This is intriguing; surely all properly chromatic keyboard instruments have both more and less comfortable keys to play in and their owners just accept it? Beginners not wanting to play the black notes on the piano springs to mind for instance. Making various layouts to compensate is unusual. Is this something to do with the business of jaffries duets being aimed at 'improving' Anglo players?

Although they are fully chromatic, every Crane/Triumph, Maccann and Chidley, and even English has a "core key". We don't normally think of it that way, though, because the core key is almost always the key of C, which is the standard from which all other keys are generally thought of as deviations. In fact, there are Englishes, Cranes, and Maccanns where the core key is something other than C, but they're rare, and they're normally described as "transposing" instruments. I think Bb and Eb are the most common keys for these uncommon instruments, as mostly they were intended for playing from music written for transposing band instruments... but any key is theoretically possible.

 

The Crane, Maccann, and English are more or less regular (each in their own way) in their patterns of moving both from the natural notes to their adjacent accidentals and from octave to octave. Historically, their players also seem not to have restricted themselves to playing in only one or a few keys, so there would seem to be little reason to prefer a nonstandard core key. (The Maccann with sinuous columns of buttons recently on eBay seems to have been a way of emphasizing keys other than C without changing the core key.) Also, having C as the core key provides a nice conceptual match for people who read music from standard music notation.

 

In the Jeffries duet layout, particularly outside the central two octaves and outside the core key, the fingering patterns seem much more arbitrary, at least at first glance. This may be one reason why Jeffries duets, while much less numerous than the other systems, are nevertheless quite often found with a core key other than C. Another reason may simply be the fact that the Jeffries duet is derived from the anglo, and for various reasons -- including what I've just given above for the duet, but also the fact that the earliest "anglo" (i.e., German) concertinas had only the notes of one or two diatonic keys, -- the anglo already had a long history of being produced in a variety of core keys for folks who wanted to play in those keys. So an existing habit or point of view may have been transferred from the one to the other without any deep consideration.

 

Do we know anything at all about early players of the Jeffries duet and the music they played that would help us understand why they chose particular core keys? In particular, do we know whether or not they tended to play in a greater variety of keys than their anglo-playing peers or whether they played frequently from written music?

 

What about today's players?

[Marien]

 

 

Dirge,

I think one of the attractions of the Jeffties duet for anglo players is how the chords (particularly for the core key) lie out up and down the rows. I think in this regard it "strikes a chord" of playing and feeling like an anglo.

 

Perhaps some Jeffries duet players like Gary Coover and Gavin Atkin can lend us their insights and expound on the possibilitirs of playing away from the core key.

 

Greg

 

That would be interesting, if anyone has the time.

 

For what it's worth, some of my Jeffries Duet experiences.

My Jeffries Duet is basically tuned in C.

I'ld say it invites to play in "on the white keys" scales C, D, E, F, G, A, B and in Bflat.

With keys on the outer row it is relatively easy to vary scales from minor to major.

With the low "white keys" on the inner row and "low anglo positions" on the left hand, it is easy to find the lowest bass notes for the "white keys".

 

The way I play is to know where to find every accidental by head and by the things hanging on each side (the ear).

once knowing where to find the accidentals, it is easy to start playing scales on the "white keys",

But it needs more thinking work for keys starting with an accidental - especially when there are more sharps and flats - such as a scale of Gflat.

The farther the scale is away from C, the more complicate to play.

Having 5 flats in this scale - it makes a quite irregular fingering position scheme.

 

Compared to a Crane I'ld say that the Jeffries is my favorit for a number klezmer and folk tunes.

It has all the possibilities to play the basic bunch of chords used in folk music.

 

It is less sootable if you change scales within one piece of music, such as repeating a theme in C in Csharp within tunesthe same tune. If there are other scales involved - such as playing jazz, classical music or klezmer and folk tunes in specific "black key scales" - I'ld prefer a system that is less centered around C, such as the german B- or C-griff. Also the Hugo Stark system (used by Wim Wakker's for his C2 duet) seems easier for switching keys, although I think I prefer the overlap of keys on a 5 row C-griff accordian - such an overlap gives you more positions to play the same note, and reduces your thinking burden as well as reducing the complexity of double crossing fingers.

 

Running out of time now,

 

Hoping this helps,

Marien

[Gavin Atkin]

Jeffries duets are centred on a single key: many I've come across were in Bb old pitch (presumably for playing with brass and so on) and so can be tuned up to C relatively easily. Other keys can be found however.

 

From C, I find I can play reasonably easily up to two keys upwards, and one key down, but further than that becomes a tad more difficult, or maybe just unfamiliar. So I'm reasonably happy in F, C, G and D, but Bb isn't so bad, and A is certainly manageable.

 

Gavin

[ceemonster]

when you guys say jeffries duet is harder to play in the "black-key" keys, are you talking about the "head" part, or the physical fingering part? i could handle the head part, but wouldn't go for a supposedly chromatic instrument tough to finger and play in five keys and their relative minors....

 

btw, i learned in a workshop a few months ago with the amazing itm PA player jimmy keane that PA is not considered equally easy in the "black keys," and that there are actually "flat-key" PAs.....i used to play and gig on PA myself, and was dumbfounded to hear this.

 

yes, the C-griff/B-griff systems ARE equally easy in all keys. well, perhaps a bit awkward in keys on rows that do not repeat so you don't have alternative fingering choices in those keys. but only a bit. moreover, CBA is isomorphic as to tonic keys whose tonic notes are placed on the same row. for ITM purposes, this is the greatest, as "D" and "B" are on the same row. so you got your "B" sesh for free. if you learn the "D" tune in one more fingering in "C," you then get the E-Flat sesh for free, since C and E-flat are on the same row. Conveniently again for the B sesh, "G" and "E" share a row. Learn that G tune in "F" for the C sesh, and you also get A-flat for the E-Flat sesh, since F and Af/Gs are on the same row....it's da bomb, baby....

Edited October 26, 2012 by ceemonster

[danersen]

David,

 

I'm wondering if your right hand notation chart is fully accurate as labeled.

 

The A in the far left (thumbward) button of the lowest row of the right hand would characteristically be a G in the usual Jeffries duet convention given the rest of your notation chart.

 

it appears to me that this may represent an effort to re-work an Anglo (G/D, perhaps) into a G-core duet; however the presence of only one C# in the right hand is curious to me if started as a G/D Anglo. Knowing nothing about Anglos, this may be just right.

 

As a duet, the scope of the notation seems a bit limited to me; however, there is a lot of music that can be played with the notes available if one stays close to home and sticks to the knitting, so to speak.

 

And, that said, this could be a interesting small(er) duet for convenience and less polyphonic material.

 

The tuning is a matter of the player's intended use as has been noted by others.

 

My own experience is consistent with Marien's description.

 

I have experience with the usual duet systems (Jeffries, Maccann, Crane, and Hayden) and I believe that I own the only Stark-layout concertina in existence having commissioned the Wakker C-2.

 

FWIW, I own two Jeffries duets and a Wakker Hayden system. I sold my Maccanns and Crane almost immediately after my C-2 arrived.

 

I also play the English system and CBA c-griff.

 

I will also suggest that the "head" part has not been nearly so difficult as the "hand" part for me as the "reaching and stretching" to various button locations has been anything but easy for me.

 

In some cases/keys/minor melodic sequences the transit has been tantamount to daunting for my small hands and short fingers.

 

I'd really love to know about that A button.

 

Be Well,

 

Dan

 

PS: If anyone is interested ... I am seriously contemplating the "release and departure" of two ECs:

 

1861 Rock Chidley standard treble in superb condition having been restored to as close to its original state as possible by Wim. Virtually all original except the usual "disposable bit" and remaining in its original key. Among the first black ones made.

 

July 2010 Morse Geordie Tenor - the original Geordie tenor in as-new condition played only by me and having left my home only for a project with a vocalist colleague. Cherry finish. Specs on the Button Box web site with the photo thereon being my very Geordie.

 

 

1349935837[/url]' post='140344']

Thank you all for the advice, especially the correction that it would be C#, not D, if tuned up rather than down: that certainly says something about my thought processes at the time.

 

I have appended the tuning chart for reference, should anyone else have one of these to figure out (maybe someone knows how to place it with the other tuning charts on Concertina.net. Now, I am not certain, but I think this layout suggests a 'G' instrument. (When playing it, it falls beautifully, almost intuitively into the minor.

 

It certainly has been modified, very professionally, but nevertheless modified from a 37 button instrument, all the original holes, including the breather holes, have been filled, ie air release vent, reed shoes modified, face plate guides added , right down to the air release button, which has been swapped to the left, having the air breather pallet kept so as to cover the two reed shoe holes. These shoes had to be displaced to elsewhere in order to hold the low C#. I am left wondering if it is not a early, Jeffries Bros experimental duet I have, prior to their going into production.

 

I may play it for a while to see if I can get the hang of the thing before making up my mind. Possibly the quickest way to change it would be to make two new reed plates, be a dashed sight easier than digging out the filling, and shimming down shoe slots. (Anyone out there got a left and right Jeffries reed plate -- without the reeds -- they would like to sell me?)

 

Thanks for all the help.

Edited October 28, 2012 by danersen