A family gathering

[Alan Day]

Here is the latest card from my collection.

A family gathering. A German card sent 12-10-1910 from Berlin to Kennington S.E. London

Al

[Dan Worrall]

Here is the latest card from my collection.

A family gathering. A German card sent 12-10-1910 from Berlin to Kennington S.E. London

Al

Interesting one, Alan....thanks for sharing it!

 

The photo is all staged, I would say...she doesn't hold the concertina as if she plays it. The Germans marketed these little boxes all over the world, by the hundreds of thousands if not millions, and yet what I have seen suggests that they were treated only as toys at home. German musicians much preferred the extended keyboards of the Chemnitzers and Bandonions. Has anyone seen anything written of Germans of that period (pre WWI) actually playing the hexagonal two rows that they sold? I must admit that I have not seen anything significant on that front...but would enjoy being surprised.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[david_boveri]

Here is the latest card from my collection.

A family gathering. A German card sent 12-10-1910 from Berlin to Kennington S.E. London

Al

Interesting one, Alan....thanks for sharing it!

 

The photo is all staged, I would say...she doesn't hold the concertina as if she plays it. The Germans marketed these little boxes all over the world, by the hundreds of thousands if not millions, and yet what I have seen suggests that they were treated only as toys at home. German musicians much preferred the extended keyboards of the Chemnitzers and Bandonions. Has anyone seen anything written of Germans of that period (pre WWI) actually playing the hexagonal two rows that they sold? I must admit that I have not seen anything significant on that front...but would enjoy being surprised.

 

Cheers,

Dan

 

that's a great picture!

 

personally i dont know anything about germans' playing the anglo concertina. i would say that they obviously never took it too seriously back then, because i have never heard of a high quality anglo coming out of germany from that time period. if they had taken it seriously, then they would have been making high and low end instruments. but, you know... they sort of came around, and obviously mr. suttner takes it very seriously!

[Dan Worrall]

Here is the latest card from my collection.

A family gathering. A German card sent 12-10-1910 from Berlin to Kennington S.E. London

Al

Interesting one, Alan....thanks for sharing it!

 

The photo is all staged, I would say...she doesn't hold the concertina as if she plays it. The Germans marketed these little boxes all over the world, by the hundreds of thousands if not millions, and yet what I have seen suggests that they were treated only as toys at home. German musicians much preferred the extended keyboards of the Chemnitzers and Bandonions. Has anyone seen anything written of Germans of that period (pre WWI) actually playing the hexagonal two rows that they sold? I must admit that I have not seen anything significant on that front...but would enjoy being surprised.

 

Cheers,

Dan

 

that's a great picture!

 

personally i dont know anything about germans' playing the anglo concertina. i would say that they obviously never took it too seriously back then, because i have never heard of a high quality anglo coming out of germany from that time period. if they had taken it seriously, then they would have been making high and low end instruments. but, you know... they sort of came around, and obviously mr. suttner takes it very seriously!

Taking it seriously? Their export of musical instruments....a huge industry in the late 19th century for them...was built around the concertina; they were exporting perhaps several hundred for every Anglo-German built. They were making low and high end instruments....by the definitions at that time. Their organ and celestial models (octave and tremelo tuned) were as good as their accordions, and were what most people, including most Irish players, thought were high end instruments at the time. Not everyone back then appreciated the increased efficiency of the Anglo-German models enough to want to put up with their perceived 'sharpness' in tone.

Its perhaps like Fords vs Bentleys. Ford makes high end products....Lincoln-Mercury. Most Ford buyers seem happy with them, and are content to let the very well to do spend the big bucks on Bentleys. Ford buyers outnumber Bentley buyers by several hundred to one.

Remember too that concertina music was played much more simply back then, for dancing. The old Irish players would scratch their heads at all the technical firepower applied today to what were once simple tunes. Needs are different....people today play mainly just for listening. Tunes are often ornamented like Victorian gingerbread houses, with decorations hung everywhere!

The Germans' own needs were for chorded accompaniment, and they wanted lots of it. They grew their bandoneons and Chemnitzers from the original German concertina so that they could play more oom-pahs.

Cheers,

Dan

[Anglo-Irishman]

i would say that they obviously never took it too seriously back then, because i have never heard of a high quality anglo coming out of germany from that time period. if they had taken it seriously, then they would have been making high and low end instruments. but, you know... they sort of came around, and obviously mr. suttner takes it very seriously!

 

Well, David, Herr Suttner is our generation, and times change ...

 

There was a time, late 19th/early 20th century, when there were more Konzertina clubs in Germany than football clubs! They formed the musical side of working- and lower middle-class culture, along with the mandolin orchestras and zither orchestras that also waned as commercial recording technology advanced (waxed? )

 

The old photos of these clubs show exclusively what we now call Large German Concertinas (LGCs) - Carlsfelders, Chemnitzers, Bandoneons. Obviously, the same attention to quality of design, manufacture and decoration was lavished on them as on the EC and Anglo in England at that time. There were simpler ones and more elaborate ones, but no shoddy ones.

In Germany as in England, the concertina advanced from the primitive 20-button layout to become a more versatile instrument, but the Germans retained the square shape and the multi-reed plates, whereas the English Anglo was based on the body and reed design of the EC. Also, the Germans went for a heavier, warmer timbre than the English.

 

The Chemnitzer and the Bandoneon are now played more widely in the US and Argentina, respectively, than in Germany itself. I believe there is an old-style Konzertina orchestra in the town of Chemnitz itself, but that's about it.

 

The modern German concertinist is typically an ITM freak who would give his right leg (NOT arm!) for a Jeffries. This is Jürgen Suttner's clientele.

What young German musicians call the "deutsche Konzertina" (German concertina) is, in fact, the old, hexagonal export type. It is basically a 20-button C/G Anglo, but with the button rows arranged parallel to one of the straight sides, and with a warmer timbre. These were exported from the former GDR (in fact, I started with one that I bought in Ireland). Judging by Ebay offers, quite a lot of them stayed in Germany, though the majority come from sellers elsewhere.

These concertinas are still being made in small quantities in the east of Germany, allegedly in acceptable quality.

The typical playing style is along the rows with plenty of "oom-pah". Any 20-button Hohner, Stagi or even Lachenal Anglo would probably meet the criteria, however. There are very few exponents of the instrument. As far as I know, there are no folk or traditional German music genres that include the hexagonal German concertina in their instrumentation.

 

Cheers,

John

[Alan Day]

Was it in your collection Dan or did I see it in an auction of a German in a 1st World War POW Camp playing Concertina ?

The problem with Auction buying is that for one picture you have to buy hundreds. I have left messages for the winning bidder that I am interested in an item and that has worked in the past. Huge War books including hundreds of photos are a different matter. Too costly to consider.

Al

[Dan Worrall]

As far as I know, there are no folk or traditional German music genres that include the hexagonal German concertina in their instrumentation.

John,

 

There are three that I know of.

 

In Ireland, there are still a small handful of older players who prefer the sound of the octave-tuned German concertina; there have been postings about that on this site, from time to time. My great-uncle, deceased, played that instrument and much preferred it to the 'sharp' sound of the 'English' (read: Anglo) concertina.

 

In South Africa, there are many, many players of the boerekonsertina, which is the original German two row octave-tuned instrument. So many that there is now a maker of it there (Danie Laubuschagne, if I have the spelling right). Most would say that Stephaan van Zyl is at the forefront of the current boerekonsertina players. Of course, perhaps the majority of current South African players use Anglos, often of 38 and more buttons, and like as not made in South Africa after the style of Wheatstone.

 

Also in South Africa, Zulu and Sotho players use the 'squashbox', a slightly modified German-style two row concertina. In recent years, they also use Bastaris because of availability, but previously always used German ones. Harry Scurfield has written on those players.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Dan Worrall]

Was it in your collection Dan or did I see it in an auction of a German in a 1st World War POW Camp playing Concertina ?

The problem with Auction buying is that for one picture you have to buy hundreds. I have left messages for the winning bidder that I am interested in an item and that has worked in the past. Huge War books including hundreds of photos are a different matter. Too costly to consider.

Al

 

Hi Alan,

 

It wasn't mine....but I'd love to see it if you ever come across it again. I'm afraid my only collecting is digital....cannot afford to get drawn into eBay too often!

 

Cheers,

Dan

[JimLucas]

As far as I know, there are no folk or traditional German music genres that include the hexagonal German concertina in their instrumentation.

There are three that I know of.

 

In Ireland....

In South Africa, there are many, many players of the boerekonsertina....

Also in South Africa, Zulu and Sotho players use the 'squashbox'....

Dan, those are traditional genres to be sure, but not "traditional German music genres" (my emphasis).

 

On the other hand, I believe that the Bielefeld concertina weekend always had classes in "German style" playing, which was a style specifically on the 2-row, 20-button German concertina. It was my understanding that there was a traditional basis for that.

[Dan Worrall]

As far as I know, there are no folk or traditional German music genres that include the hexagonal German concertina in their instrumentation.

There are three that I know of.

 

In Ireland....

In South Africa, there are many, many players of the boerekonsertina....

Also in South Africa, Zulu and Sotho players use the 'squashbox'....

Dan, those are traditional genres to be sure, but not "traditional German music genres" (my emphasis).

 

On the other hand, I believe that the Bielefeld concertina weekend always had classes in "German style" playing, which was a style specifically on the 2-row, 20-button German concertina. It was my understanding that there was a traditional basis for that.

You're right, as is John; I read it as German concertina music genres. I guess the Dutch/Afrikaans speakers of South Africa (Dutch used to be called "Lowlands Deutsch" I believe) is as close as we'll get. Still, no cigar.

 

Dan

[Anglo-Irishman]

On the other hand, I believe that the Bielefeld concertina weekend always had classes in "German style" playing, which was a style specifically on the 2-row, 20-button German concertina. It was my understanding that there was a traditional basis for that.

 

Jim,

You've used the "T" word!

 

OTOH, you softened it down with the word "basis".

 

What's a "traditional basis"? Could mean at least two things: (1) A body of music with national characeristics, or involving tunes demonstrably originating in a particular country or region, or (2) Widespread use of a given instrument in informal music in a particular country or region.

Perhaps this is more satisfactiory: (3) A body of music with particular national characteristics, typically played on a finite set of instruments. (For example, marches, strathspeys and reels played on Highland bagpipes would be traditional Scottish music.)

 

I'm not really into German traditional music. In my part of the country, I'd say it doesn't exist, as piping exists in Scotland or fiddling in Ireland. There are, however, regions of Germany that have this cohabitation of certain musical forms with certain instruments. I suppose the Bavarian wind band playing marches and polkas would fall into this category. Certainly the Bavarian "Stubenmusi" with its fiddle, guitar, double bass, harp, zither and potentially yodelling vocals doing "Zwiefache" (tunes in alternating 3/4 and 2/4 time). A lot of this is commercial music, which a lot of Germans would not consider "traditional" or "folksy", but it does have a traditional basis. The PA and the "Steyrische Handharmonika" (a 3-row diatonic accordion) do feature prominently in this kind of music, but the 20-button German concertina is not used, as far as I know.

What passes as "German-style" concertina at events like Bielefeld has its "traditional basis" in the sense of (1) above - i.e. it is used to play German traditional or folk music in a way that is appropriate to it and to German listening habits.

 

The provenience of many of the Ebay offers of old German 20-button concertinas indicates that the instrument must have enjoyed a certain popularity at home as well as in the UK and US - but somehow it did not make it into the canon of "German traditional instruments". People probably used it as a simple, or cheap, way to play whatever songs and dances happened to be popular at the time. This might be considered the "traditional" use of the German 20-b, and it is the way the few modern German exponents use it.

 

The above is not rigorously researched - just my impression from the media and the German concertina forums - but it may be of interest.

 

Cheers,

John

[JimLucas]

On the other hand, I believe that the Bielefeld concertina weekend always had classes in "German style" playing, which was a style specifically on the 2-row, 20-button German concertina. It was my understanding that there was a traditional basis for that.

You've used the "T" word!

No I haven't.

I've used the "t" word. Uncapitalized! That has a non-specialist meaning of some practice passed on within a group. (And there are many sorts of groups. Concertina.net is a group, and we have our own traditions, e.g., traditions of behavior and discussion.)

 

OTOH, you softened it down with the word "basis".

 

What's a "traditional basis"? Could mean at least two things:

At least!

You gave three examples, none of which are what I meant.

 

What I meant in this case is a style of playing the concertina -- and possibly also a repertoire, -- passed on from person to person and remaining relatively stable over several "generations" (where a "generation" is not necessarily a human lifetime, but a period in which a significant number of tradition bearers disappear and others take their place). At Bielefeld -- a German concertina weekend -- there were classes specifically in such a style of playing, termed "German", and centered specifically on the 2-row "anglos" of German style construction.

 

The majority of the attendees at those weekends (at least the couple I attended) were German. Many of them were interested primarily in playing Irish music in an "Irish" style on the "anglo", but they seemed to view the "German" classes as truly representing something with a history long and broad enough to deserve the national name. I think they should know.

 

I'm not really into German traditional music. In my part of the country, I'd say it doesn't exist, as piping exists in Scotland or fiddling in Ireland.

What's your part of the country?

 

What passes as "German-style" concertina at events like Bielefeld has its "traditional basis" in the sense of (1) above - i.e. it is used to play German traditional or folk music in a way that is appropriate to it and to German listening habits.

And how does that make it not a tradition?

 

The above is not rigorously researched - just my impression from the media and the German concertina forums - but it may be of interest.

Just because it hasn't been given masses of attention by either the media or academia, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Consider the concertina.

 

I'm not familiar with the German concertina forums. Do they delve deeply into such questions, or do they concentrate on uses of the concertina for non-German musical traditions? Though my German is quite limited, I think pointers to those forums would be nice. (Maybe send the links to Chris Timson? His Concertina FAQ lists only one German internet link, and it's apparently no longer valid.)

 

My own exposure so far has been limited to a couple of Bielefeld weekends. But at those weekends, it seemed that there was a consensus that there was such a thing as a "German" concertina style and that it involved the 20-button concertina. Whether such a tradition would excite someone who's into contemporary Irish or English concertina playing, I don't know. But since these people seem to think there is one, wouldn't it be more productive to try to locate some of them and see what they have to teach us about the extent and history of their tradition, rather than denying its existence?