Square Concertina

[Radioboy]

Here is an interesting concertina on E-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=3761899852 I contacted the seller and he told me that the reeds are on a zinc plate with some accidentals on seperate zinc plates. Has anyone seen this kind of instrument before? I wasn't sure if this should be posted in this section or history so please post in the appropriate place. Howie Leifer

[bill_mchale]

In general posts about concertinas on e-bay go into the buy and sell forum; but this is an exception since the instrument is kind of interesting in its own right.... rather interesting button layout.

 

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Bill

[wes williams]

Quote from Dating update (other makers and dealers)

 

Henry Harley

The instruments made by Henry Harley are some of the most distinctive in the Horniman collection. In 1882 he is listed as operating from 22 Brunswick Place, City Road, N. London.

[Radioboy]

I just saw that this concertina went for $6100!!! Check out the bidding; it's really interesting. Howie Leifer

[Stephen Chambers]

Radioboy said:

I just saw that this concertina went for $6100!!!

I fear the seller has become yet another victim of eBay's spurious bidders, and I see that the "winner" david_whiteson1977, who only registered with eBay today, has bids on 108 items.

 

Unfortunately I have also become a victim in this, as I was going to bid on the concertina myself, but it isn't worth anything like what it has now been run up to.

 

Henry Harley's concertinas are of German construction, but modified to make them seem more English. The early example that I already have is (according to Maria Dunkel) identifiably by the German maker Bassler, and I was keen to purchase this one for comparison. (According to Neil Wayne) Harley later advertised as a "piano maker", I wonder if his pianos were also German ?.

 

Edited for typo.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Stephen Chambers
Edited to add "According to Neil Wayne)"

[Radioboy]

What happens in these cases? Does the second bidder win? I considered bidding on this too but I wouldn't have gone as high as the second bidder's $650 anyway. Do you play the Harley that you have? howie

[Chris Timson]

I think quite a few of us had a pop at this one. I am amazed, though, that Tinomusik (who seems to be a genuine bidder) went up as high as $6000 for it. Must have been the thrill of the chase overcoming common sense.

 

Is this business of spurious bidders new to eBay, or just new in our corner? I can understand scammers, and the signs are clear if you look for them, but these spurious bidders bid fair to bring he whole system crashing down. I can see how it would be easy for one person, watching for auctions about to end, to cause widespread havoc in a short time. If I were eBay, I'd be very worried about now.

 

Chris

 

PS I've got a rather nice picture of a morris man playing one of these:-

 

[Stephen Chambers]

What happens in these cases? Does the second bidder win?

Only if he agrees to buy it, he doesn't have to, but in this case his bid was a ridiculous $6,000 so I very much doubt if he will !

 

Even the third bidder's $850 is very high, for what is really only a two-row German concertina.

[mike byrne]

I've got a rather nice picture of a morris man playing one of these:-

Chris - Your picture is Geoff Halford who plays for the Leicester Morris Men and it is a Harley he is playing.

[bill_mchale]

I just saw that this concertina went for $6100!!! Check out the bidding; it's really interesting. Howie Leifer

Mmm, maybe that is why Harold Herrington discontinued his square concertinas... there was by far too much of a mark up on ebay .

 

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Bill

[Chris Timson]

Your picture is Geoff Halford who plays for the Leicester Morris Men

Thank you for the ID.

 

Chris

[OLDNICKILBY]

It was worth phoning Geoff to tell him about his picture .A remarkable man not only was he pleased ,he remembered who took it and where.Not only that he is pretty good on the concertina.

 

Old Nic

PS I too am of the opinion that Harleys are German as the fretwork below the handles on the four that I have seen has been modified from a series of holes to fretwork

[Chris Timson]

It was worth phoning Geoff to tell him about his picture .A remarkable man not only was he pleased ,he remembered who took it and where.

In that case, I'll add this one too. I don't actually know who took the pictures, but Pete Grassby had them, and he showed them to me at Sidmouth - must be 8 years ago - knowing that I play a square Herrington, so I got a local shop to scan them for me.

 

Chris

 

[Stephen Chambers]

I too am of the opinion that Harleys are German as the fretwork below the handles on the four that I have seen has been modified from a series of holes to fretwork

Unusually (maybe uniquely ?) mine still has the original series of holes, in the shape of a cornucopia, in the ends. It seems that the design formed by the holes was almost a "signature" with German makers, and that was how Maria Dunkel identified my Harley as a Bassler.

[OLDNICKILBY]

Perhaps not as I saw one in a Music Shop in Madison Wisconsin that had the cornucopia pattern.

Old Nic

[Stephen Chambers]

I saw one in a Music Shop in Madison Wisconsin that had the cornucopia pattern.

Old Nic,

 

That's interesting, can you remember if that one also had a skittle-shaped windkey (hinged off the rail/handle) and Harley's name stamped into the end, instead of a paper label ?

 

Cheers,

[Bill N]

I saw one in a Music Shop in Madison Wisconsin that had the cornucopia pattern.

Old Nic,

 

That's interesting, can you remember if that one also had a skittle-shaped windkey (hinged off the rail/handle) and Harley's name stamped into the end, instead of a paper label ?

 

Cheers,

Hello Stephen,

 

A reply to an old post, from the colonies!

 

I have a family heirloom Henry Harley which I am in the process of rejuvenating. This instrument has been in my family since at least 1890, and in 1908 (not 1906 as previously posted on C-net) travelled in steerage with my great-grandfather from Yorkshire to a homestead outside Moosejaw, Saskatchewan, Canada. It was last played (with the exception of my recent fooling around with it) by my Aunt in the 1950s, at which time some rather amateurish repairs were made.,

 

I have just done repairs to the fretwork and the ( skittle shaped) wind-key. ( I am a museum curator, so have done only reversible repairs using hide glue) and the reeds are with a local respected accordion retorer. He has replaced the leather flaps with hand-cut Italian leather (they were a hodge-podge of home made repairs by my great-great, great, and grand-father) and is fabricating 1 new steel replacement reed.

 

It is badly out of tu, to the point where it is difficult to know the origianl tuning. The restorer sounded the reeds, and has recorded the apparent note of each reed. 1-10 on the right-hand side corespond roughly to the G/C rows on my modern anglo, although it is obviosly not tuned to a standard, modern pitch. The left side is more badly out-of-tune, and the restorer has no idea what the accidentals (0, 11, 12) on each side should be.

 

Could you shed any light on the key and tuning?

 

BTW, my concertina is nearly identical to the 2 photos in this thread. The paper label reads "Improved Handmade Broad Steel Reed Concertina", and "Henry Harley Maker London" is stamped on the reed plates and boards. There are recent photos posted in the Concertina History forum of C-net.

[Theo]

It is badly out of tu, to the point where it is difficult to know the origianl tuning. The restorer sounded the reeds, and has recorded the apparent note of each reed. 1-10 on the right-hand side corespond roughly to the G/C rows on my modern anglo, although it is obviosly not tuned to a standard, modern pitch. The left side is more badly out-of-tune, and the restorer has no idea what the accidentals (0, 11, 12) on each side should be.

 

Could you shed any light on the key and tuning?

 

It was probably tuned originally to a different pitch standard from modern concert pitch. There was a common pitch used in Germany that was based on A=435Hz ie 5Hz flat of modern concert pitch so there is chance that this is where it was originally pitched. It is also quite likely that it was not tuned to equal temperament, and of course the effects of time will have altered the pitch too. If your repairer can work out the average deviation from modern pitch, then look at the notes in relation to that then things might begin to make more sense.