44 Buttons ?chemnitzer/carlsfelder? Concertina

[Damaya]

I would like to ask you for an advice. Few days ago, I get an instrument - perhaps chemnitzer/carlsfelder concertina (it seem closest in appearance to me, I don't know the differences between those types) - but as I went trough the internet I realized that none of the keyboard layouts that I've found fitted to my new squeezebox.

 

It has 88 tones (24 buttons on the right side and 20 on the left - arranged in 3 rows on each side), an "A" in decoration (so it would be possible connected with Arnold family?) and there was a text I'm not able to read (something with 88 tones...) and pencil written date inside (12.12.14). I uploaded some photos in my dropbox gallery: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i36l35953it77mu/x_GRp1-_rB so you could see what do I speak about.

I would like to learn more about and to play this instrument. Could you help me to identify it? Do you know where to find a particular layout for this type? What about tunning?

 

Because the numbers of buttons are not clear visible on the photos, I write them also below:

 

LEFT

16, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0

15, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0/1

17, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, cross

 

RIGHT

crossed zero, 2/0, 0/1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0

4/0, 3/0, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 15

6/0, 5/0, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16

 

Thanks a lot,

Barbora

 

 

 

[Dan Worrall]

Difficult to know what you have without knowing the notes, but a good guess would be a Chemnitzer. A bit of the history: Carl Uhlig chaired a meeting in 1854 of German concertina enthusasts where they adopted the Chemnitzer arrangement. Uhlig's daughter married Ernst Arnold, who in 1864 took over concertina production from Carl Zimmerman, who had moved to Philadelphia. Ernst's son Afred Arnold then took over production in 1911. From LaVern Rippley's fine book on the History of the Chemnitzer, " For a time Ernst Louis Arnold used the logo simply "A" but later revised it to read 'Marke A' and then simply 'ELA'. But in 1911 when the firm was acquired by his son, the markings changed to Alfred Arnold."

 

Based on this, your concertina would seem to be an Ernst Arnold concertina, built before 1911 (perhaps as early as the late 19th century). The 1914 date on the inside might simply be a tuner's signature from later. Or not. I'd suggest you purchase and read through Rippley's history book; it will tell you a lot about early German concertinas of various types. It is published by the St. Olaf College Press (Minnesota).

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Daniel Hersh]

Looks like an ELA to me too, but I would guess Carlsfelder rather than Chemnitzer. Carlsfelders generally have three rows of buttons on both sides, as this one does. Chemnitzers tend to have four rows on the bass side and three on the treble. There's a Carlsfelder layout diagram at the bottom of http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-wuerzburg.de/struktur/lehrstuehle_professuren_ressorts/projekte_und_materialien_des_lehrstuhls_fuer_ethnomusikologie/konzertina/konzertina_spielen/ziffern_und_notenvorlagen/ and there's a Carlsfelder instruction book listed for sale at http://www.notenbuch.de/productlist2.aspx?Navtop1%24lookuptop=carlsfelder&Los=Los%21

 

Difficult to know what you have without knowing the notes, but a good guess would be a Chemnitzer. A bit of the history: Carl Uhlig chaired a meeting in 1854 of German concertina enthusasts where they adopted the Chemnitzer arrangement. Uhlig's daughter married Ernst Arnold, who in 1864 took over concertina production from Carl Zimmerman, who had moved to Philadelphia. Ernst's son Afred Arnold then took over production in 1911. From LaVern Rippley's fine book on the History of the Chemnitzer, " For a time Ernst Louis Arnold used the logo simply "A" but later revised it to read 'Marke A' and then simply 'ELA'. But in 1911 when the firm was acquired by his son, the markings changed to Alfred Arnold."

 

Based on this, your concertina would seem to be an Ernst Arnold concertina, built before 1911 (perhaps as early as the late 19th century). The 1914 date on the inside might simply be a tuner's signature from later. Or not. I'd suggest you purchase and read through Rippley's history book; it will tell you a lot about early German concertinas of various types. It is published by the St. Olaf College Press (Minnesota).

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Dan Worrall]

Good call; that makes sense. ELA took over from Zimmerman, after all....and Zimmerman invented the Carlsfelder system. I had thought that Carlsfelders died out in Germany after Zimmerman left for the US, but that must be wrong. ZImmerman did sell Carlsfelders at his shop in Philadelphia, but they never caught on in the US as far as I know...it was mostly Chemnitzers, and not in Philadelphia.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Dan Worrall

[Daniel Hersh]

I don't think the Carlsfelder ever died out in Germany, at least in the region called Franken or Franconia. See http://www.musikwissenschaft.uni-wuerzburg.de/struktur/lehrstuehle_professuren_ressorts/projekte_und_materialien_des_lehrstuhls_fuer_ethnomusikologie/konzertina/ . There also seems to be a continuing Carlsfelder tradition in a region of Brazil - see http://som-da-concertina.blogspot.com/2009/02/concertina-na-musica-pomerana.html .

 

Good call; that makes sense. ELA took over from Zimmerman, after all....and Zimmerman invented the Carlsfelder system. I had thought that Carlsfelders died out in Germany after Zimmerman left for the US, but that must be wrong. ZImmerman did sell Carlsfelders at his shop in Philadelphia, but they never caught on in the US as far as I know...it was mostly Chemnitzers, and not in Philadelphia.

[Damaya]

Thanks a lot for both of you. The excursion to the history made me feel more excited about my concertina, particularly the fact it could be so old... older than I supposed and that it seems it's really connected with such a name as Arnold.

 

I also appreciate the links for instruction book, I'm just not sure if it would be so helpful as I don't speak German.

 

Let me ask one another question about Carlsfelder 106 diagram you posted, Daniel: Could I count on numbers labeling each button? Like on the left side there is just difference in position of 14 and 17 button - so I think it might not be so difficult the identification of the notes? But the right side is quite different - on the 106 diagram there aren't any 2/0, 3/0, 4/0, 5/0 and 6/0 button... Any idea what does it mean?

 

Thanks again

[Daniel Hersh]

I don't know the answer, partly because I don't know whether the Carlsfelder button layout is standardized or if it varies from one maker to another. But I did find a Chemnitzer diagram (by concertina.net member Ted Kloba) that has buttons with some of those mystery labels at http://www.concertinamusic.com/music/chemnitzerkeyboardstaff.pdf , so perhaps that will help.

 

Let me ask one another question about Carlsfelder 106 diagram you posted, Daniel: Could I count on numbers labeling each button? Like on the left side there is just difference in position of 14 and 17 button - so I think it might not be so difficult the identification of the notes? But the right side is quite different - on the 106 diagram there aren't any 2/0, 3/0, 4/0, 5/0 and 6/0 button... Any idea what does it mean?

[Theodore Kloba]

It's probably a Carlsfelder: Maria Dunkel's Bandonion und Konzertina says that there was a 44-button version produced with 20 buttons on bass & 24 on treble like this one.

 

The Chemnitzers generally were 38, 39, 51 or 52 buttons.

 

There was also a 44-button Bandonion (I have one) but by the time Bandonions reached 44 buttons, there were 4 rows on the bass side.

[Damaya]

Ok, as I red your answers and did some other research, it really seems to be Carlsfelder made by ELA. I've also found another diagram that fits exactly to my concertina, just some label numbers (and so do the tones?) are different. If anyone's interested, here it is:

 

 

 

There are much more diagrams for concertina, chemnitzer, bandoneon and accordion: http://www.korbo.com/piedcrow/DiagramIndex.htm

[Daniel Hersh]

Great! FYI, there's a bigger (and probably later) ELA Carlsfelder on eBay now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Concertina-Bandoneon-/231080900218?pt=Tasteninstrumente&hash=item35cd7eb67a .

 

Ok, as I red your answers and did some other research, it really seems to be Carlsfelder made by ELA. I've also found another diagram that fits exactly to my concertina, just some label numbers (and so do the tones?) are different. If anyone's interested, here it is:

 

 

There are much more diagrams for concertina, chemnitzer, bandoneon and accordion: http://www.korbo.com/piedcrow/DiagramIndex.htm

Edited October 26, 2013 by Daniel Hersh