Later Wheatstone Riveted Reeds

[varney]

I've been working on a Wheatstone anglo from the late 50s ( I believe) which has aluminium frame reeds/ These are riveted at head and tail to the reed pan. I've had to tune a few which I was able to do with a Dremel, but some of the reeds are a little gritty and need a cleaning.

 

Normally this is just a case of sliding a piece of stiff paper under the tongue, but with these being riveted to the pan I can't take them out to do this properly. The ones on the underside of the pan I can get at, but the upper section in their chambers are well nigh impossible.

 

Has anyone figure out a way to do this in situ, or is there a way to remove the rivets, pop reed out and then replace?

 

Sorry I can't provide pictures - my camera is on the blink.......

thanks,

Michael.

[Geoff Wooff]

I cannot imagine that the reeds are held down by rivets.. I have seen the reeds of late Wheatstones that had the reeds fixed to the reedpans with small domed screws... the only thing I can imagine is that what you have are small nail-like pins similar to those used to hold accordion reeds in place. If this is the case then you should be able to carefully lift them by either gripping the heads of the pins with a pair of pliers or very fine pincers or prise them up with a tiny 'gemmy' bar type device.... which you would need to fabricate to suit the space available.

 

Some pictures would be a great help though,

Geoff.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Geoff Wooff

[Frank Edgley]

Wheatstone used riveted reeds in the late 1800s. This demanded a degree of accuracy when installing the reed tongues, the placement of the rivet holes, etc. The more common way of affixing the reed tongues was easier as the tongues could be positioned and repositioned duiring installation. I have repaired several Wheatstones with riveted reeds, in the past.

[varney]

Thanks to you both for your helpful replies.......

 

I think Frank might have picked me up wrong when I said 'riveted reeds'. I didn't mean the tongues are riveted to the frames as with the early reeds one sometimes sees, rather these are aluminimum frames with normal clamp and screw fixings for the tongue. The frames themselves are 'riveted' to the reed pan.

 

Maybe I'm using the wrong term here - and a picture would solve it ( can't find the bloody cable to connect my camera to the computer........arrrgghhh!) There is a black metal holder ( like a sidways on U-shape) at the head and tail of each reed which is fixed to the pan by a brass pin or 'rivet' passing through the timber. I believe these were commonly used in the later years by Wheatstone and are not favoured as they make it awkward to do any kind of maintenance on the reed.

 

Geoff - I'd be willing to try popping out the pins to remove the reed if someone can reassure me they'll pop back in as readily! Has anyone else had experience of removing these, or come up with a workaround for cleaning reed tongues etc?

 

Many thanks,

Michael.

[chris]

would these 'U' shaped metal holders turn to one side to release the reed plate - ie pivoting around the 'rivet' rather than extracting it? - possibly more diligence in looking for camera lead

chris

[tony]

Sounds like the reed plates are attached in the same way that many accordion reed plates are. If this is the case the reed plates will have a small groove in each end to allow for a pin to be pressed into the wooden reed block, the groove prevents any sideways movement.

[malcolm clapp]

Sounds like the reed plates are attached in the same way that many accordion reed plates are.

 

 

Sounds like it may actually be accordion reedplates and that the concertina in question is a May Fair....

[JimLucas]

I've been working on a Wheatstone anglo from the late 50s ( I believe)...

If it's Wheatstone, it should have a serial number. And it should be possible to look the number up in the ledgers. No?

[Theo]

For us to give any real help we need to see photos, so I suggest fixing the camera is the first step to fixing the concertina!

[spindizzy]

....can't find the bloody cable to connect my camera to the computer........arrrgghhh!

 

If you can't find a cable, maybe you could find a card reader for the camera card.

[varney]

Had to follow Spindizzys suggestion and got a card reader to replace lost cable........

 

As now can be seen ( I hope....am going to try and add pictures here ) the Wheatstone is not a Mayfair but a nice timber end with metal buttons.

 

 

The pins pass through the reed frames so swivelling the metal clamps that are affixed to these doesn't release them.

 

Has anybody ever taken these off before? Were they able to re-attach? Failing that - any suggestions on how to clean the tongues for the chambered reeds?

[tony]

Had to follow Spindizzys suggestion and got a card reader to replace lost cable........

 

As now can be seen ( I hope....am going to try and add pictures here ) the Wheatstone is not a Mayfair but a nice timber end with metal buttons.

 

 

The pins pass through the reed frames so swivelling the metal clamps that are affixed to these doesn't release them.

 

Has anybody ever taken these off before? Were they able to re-attach? Failing that - any suggestions on how to clean the tongues for the chambered reeds?

 

Not seen one before but my engineering experience suggests that the “U” shaped pieces at each end of the reed plate are wedges. If so you should be able to press them out thereby releasing the reed plate. A pair of thin nosed pliers, one side against the pin and the other against the wedge, and a gentle squeeze may suffice.

[JimLucas]

The pins pass through the reed frames so swivelling the metal clamps that are affixed to these doesn't release them.

Not seen one before but my engineering experience suggests that the “U” shaped pieces at each end of the reed plate are wedges. If so you should be able to press them out thereby releasing the reed plate.

I agree with Tony. It looks like the metal "clamp" (I'd be inclined to call it a "clip", rather than a "clamp") has a slot, so it should be possible to push it "sideways" away from the pin, rotating it if necessary to give adequate clearance.

 

I'm guessing (though it's truly a guess) that then there will be holes in the reed frame large enough for the pin heads to pass through as the frame is lifted... or some other obvious way to easily remove the entire reed frame.

 

And reassembly should be a simple reversal of the process.

 

I've not seen anything like it before in a concertina, but the concept is common in other applications.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[JimLucas]

As now can be seen ( I hope....am going to try and add pictures here ) the Wheatstone is not a Mayfair but a nice timber end with metal buttons.

 

Looks like a serial number is visible in the second photo, but the resolution isn't good enough for me to read it. I wonder if there's any special notation on its ledger entry.

[tony]

Thanks Jim, you put it a little more eloquently than I.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Had to follow Spindizzys suggestion and got a card reader to replace lost cable........

 

As now can be seen ( I hope....am going to try and add pictures here ) the Wheatstone is not a Mayfair but a nice timber end with metal buttons.

 

 

The pins pass through the reed frames so swivelling the metal clamps that are affixed to these doesn't release them.

 

Has anybody ever taken these off before? Were they able to re-attach? Failing that - any suggestions on how to clean the tongues for the chambered reeds?

 

Please see attached

 

Geoff

[varney]

Thank you, Geoff........ Now that I have a master concertina maker's assurance that these are removeable / replaceable I'll follow your diagram and have a go tomorrow.

 

Were these used because they were ( as you describe in your diagram ) a 'quick fit retaining clamp' and therefore saved costs on routing out reed pans? From reactions here I get the impression this wasn't a common system and mustn't have gained popular use?

 

regards,

Michael.

[Dirge]

Thank you, Geoff........ Now that I have a master concertina maker's assurance that these are removeable / replaceable I'll follow your diagram and have a go tomorrow.

 

Were these used because they were ( as you describe in your diagram ) a 'quick fit retaining clamp' and therefore saved costs on routing out reed pans? From reactions here I get the impression this wasn't a common system and mustn't have gained popular use?

 

regards,

Michael.

I found myself looking at it and wondering if it was giving any of our current makers ideas; it appears quite a foolproof system.